Divine Enigma
At Divine Enigma, we're here to explore the wonders of neurodiversity amid busy corporate life and career dreams. Our platform is like a cosy sanctuary where everyone - whether you're a professional or an entrepreneur - can join in uplifting conversations. From simple tips for managing projects to self-care practices that work, we're all about helping you grow in your career journey. Picture us as your friendly guide through the twists and turns of corporate life, offering a holistic approach perfect for neurodiverse folks to not only get by but to truly shine in their careers.
Divine Enigma
Finding Love and Success as a Neurodivergent Black Man
As a neurodiverse person too, Tumi has experienced the chaos that comes with it, struggling to be organized and often needing assistance from his wife. Tumi's neurodiversity is Dyspraxia, one of the least recognised or understood forms of neurodiversity. Interestingly, Dyspraxia is more prevalent than ADHD and Autism in the UK; however, there are close to 50 times more publications about the latter than the former.
Dyspraxia is medically described as Developmental Coordination Disorder. "Dys" means difficulty while "Praxia" means Action. Hence, it means difficulty executing gross or fine motor skills. It also includes struggling with organization, time management, forgetfulness, and sleep. On the other hand, some of the strengths include creativity, empathy, and the ability to speak publicly.
Audacity and confidence—how do they shape our personal and professional lives, especially for a dyspraxic man finding love in a world filled with societal expectations? Sarah and her guest unpack this topic with heartfelt anecdotes, from overcoming insecurities to the significant role of empathy and strong friendships. The discussion extends to navigating employment as a neurodivergent person, highlighting the impact of representation, mentorship, and advocacy within the Black neurodiversity community. This episode also touches on the practicalities of daily life challenges and the crucial need for systemic support, providing a comprehensive look into the world of neurodiversity and success.
● Tumi’s website: www.theblackdyspraxic.com
● Connect with Tumi on LinkedIn (Tumi Sotire), Twitter (Tumi Sotire), and Instagram (@theblackdyspraxic)
The membership also offers a full diagnostic assessment for neurodiversity from educational psychologists or Medical Doctors closely supported by the British Dyslexia Association and Lexxic. This is huge because of the long waitlist. Nonmembers are charged £5 at Divineenigma.org for a body doubling session.
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Music: “She Royalty” by Amaro & “Whistle” by Lukas Got Lucky
Hello and welcome to Divining Egmar, a podcast that talks about how to navigate through the complexities of the workplace as a modern day professional, whilst simultaneously having a side hustle. We appreciate all of our audience members for taking some time out of their day to tune into another episode and look forward to providing you all with some value through our show today. My name is Sarah and I will be the host for this podcast. This podcast will be available on all platforms where you can find podcasts, including Spotify, amazon, apple Podcasts, and we're also on YouTube. Let's get started. Hi to me. Thank you for coming on to Divining Egma. I'm so grateful that you're on today's show. I hope you're doing well. It's friday afternoon. We're doing this podcast, um, today, um, it's kind of sunny, but you know I'm in london, you're up north, so, yeah, thank you for coming on, um. So, yeah, I like to kind of start the podcast in the sense that tell me how you're doing, how's your week been how? How have you been generally?
Speaker 2:Hey, sarah, thank you so much for having me on Divine Enigma. When you mentioned it's Friday, I wanted to break into song to be like it's Friday. It's Friday, is that how it goes? Anyway, yeah, I'm really excited to be here. I've seen some of your other shows and it's been's been really good and, yeah, it's been great connecting with you. So I'm really excited for what you're doing.
Speaker 1:I'm really glad to be on this platform.
Speaker 2:How have I been? It's people and it's cold, so I don't understand, because may is about to start and I'm still freezing and I'm putting the heat on and that's really bugging me and you say that you know. You live in London, so you imagine what it is in New Castle. The devil is a liar, so that's about me. Um, finished work. Work has been good. We're constantly building and we're constantly hosting, but I'm glad to be here. Glad to be here how are you?
Speaker 1:how am I? I have had a incredibly long week, but very productive week. Um, I'm just grateful that I've got through to this week, but there's still more work to come. Um, I had, um, like the beginning of April. I went away for my birthday and I feel like this month is just like flown by and we're already entering may and this year has flown by. I still feel like I should be in january and it's just like flying by. We're almost middle of the year and I'm like hi, where's 2024 going? So it's going so quickly for me.
Speaker 2:I, I feel yeah, how was your birthday actually? Because I actually listened to you on a podcast and you were talking the ADHD Bayes podcast, shout out to them about. You were talking about how your husband is very organised, he likes to pack and everything like that, and you're like kind of like spur of the moment. I'm more like you, like I'm like let's just have the bath, let's just have, let's just have the bad, let's just enjoy it as well, the moment type of thing.
Speaker 1:and I think my wife is more like let's track it, let's talk to the structure so it's, it's kind of an oxymoron, because I'm a project manager, which means I'm supposed to be very organized, yeah, but in my own. But in my own personal life, no, I'm not organized. I feel like the reason why I'm organized at work is because I'm getting paid wow that's what I think it is. I think that's what it is.
Speaker 2:The truth is coming out now yeah, and it's a survival technique.
Speaker 1:So you have, you have to do your job, otherwise you know whatever pays the paper, whatever.
Speaker 2:for example, I'm a researcher and I'm an academic, so I'm supposed to be very meticulous, detailed, orientated and stuff like that. And it's just by the grace that's helping me, because in my personal life, no, do you understand? But we push, we push. They don't need to know that, the interviewers don't need to know that. But employers, if you're listening, I can still bring value, don't worry don't worry, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we can both bring value.
Speaker 1:It's just like in our personal life we have it slack, but yeah, I'm grateful to my husband because he's naturally meticulous. He's more organized than me, like I don't know where anything is but he will tell me where anything is, so I'll lose something.
Speaker 2:He's like oh, there it is, I'm like, oh okay, let me be honest with you, like speaking about losing something, I woke up today and I couldn't find my phone, and I was supposed to be working from home that's me every day and the thing is, when you can't find your phone, it's a problem.
Speaker 2:I was supposed to play some content today and it wasn't. It wasn't even happening and I wanted to contact you about the podcast. Thank god you emailed me. I was looking around my house. There was a catch-22 because I wanted to start work and I had a deadline and stuff like that. I was looking for my phone, looking for my phone, looking. I called. I messaged my wife. She was like okay, cool, I'll sort it out when I come home. She came home now saw the house. She was like you've messed up this house because you're looking for a friend. She looked at me. I was frustrated. Ten minutes my beautiful wife found my phone. I was like what? I actually looked at this before, but anyway, I still did my work and everything like that, praise God. But that's just what it's like to be near that virgin.
Speaker 2:It's yeah, it's chaos, but it's beautiful chaos, and I wouldn't have it any other way.
Speaker 1:It is what it is so I wanted to ask you um to me, can you share your personal journey and experience of being a black man with dyspraxia and actually maybe explain what dyspraxia is, because not a lot of people know what it is? People know about dyslexia and ADHD and all the other kind of neurodiverse conditions autism but dyspraxia and again, tourette's syndrome is quite ones that people don't really know a lot about so, like I always say, that in the neurodivergent family, adhd and dyspraxia and autism are like the older siblings, the ones that everybody knows about.
Speaker 2:Do you understand what I'm saying?
Speaker 2:yeah dyspraxax is like one of those like siblings that people just ignore. You know they, you know the siblings where people come to your house and they're like hello, hello. And then there's one that people just don't ignore. The spax is one of those. But then also there's taret, um, you know there's dysgraphia, dyscalculia, you know bipolar. There's dysgraphia, dyscalculia, you know bipolar. There's, you know there's a lot of other things that we don't. When we talk about neurodiversity we don't really mention those things. We can go into why that is, but yeah, dyspraxia is one of those things and actually people don't know that there's actually more people that have dyspraxia than have autism and ADHD in the country. That's interesting. Dyspraxia is actually more prevalent according to the evidence, like, yeah, so there's more. But as one of my friends, professor Nancy Dorish, I'll shout out to her even though it's more prevalent, the ratio of research compared to autism is 50 to 1. So for every 50 articles that are published about autism, there's only one paper that's published about dyspraxia. So you can see the discrepancy.
Speaker 2:Anyway, I'm saying about dyspraxia. What is it? Dyspraxia other people will know as developmental coordination disorder, because that's the kind of medical term, because there's not a medical consensus of what dyspraxia is, but dyspraxia is all about coordination. So if you think about the Latin, dys means difficulty, praxis means action, so difficulty in action. So we're talking about action, coordination, difficulty to grow some fine motor skills. So a gross motor skill could be running, swimming, walking and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:You know, a fine motor skill could be the way you eat or the way you tie your shoelaces, like if I showed you I still have a mouth that's tying my shoelaces, but you know stuff like that. Or typing or highlighting or reading quickly. But in addition to all of those things with coordination, we still have things that other neurotypes struggle with, such as organization, time management, forgetfulness, executive functioning, sleep, all of those type of things. In addition to all of that, you know, I can't finish the description without talking about some of our strengths, because that's what, as a neurodivergent advocate, it's important to talk about the balance for you. So this practice can be very creative, very big picture thinking, um, very empathetic, have a lot of integrity, and they're amazing speakers as well. So that's quite a few. That's.
Speaker 1:That's just a few of the strengths and what about your experience of being a black man with dyspraxia? The intersectionality?
Speaker 2:so let's talk about that. Um, so I was. I found out about dyspraxia when I was four and you know I told you before that. One thing that I always used to say is I knew I was dyspraxic before I knew I was black. And the reason why I say that and the reason why it was a big deal is like, if you really deep black culture, nigerian culture, but black culture in general, whole nation, is an important aspect, because how many times have you been to your typical Nigerian party where African praise and worship, like in your church, and everybody's clapping in rhythm, everybody's doing things in step?
Speaker 2:That wasn't me. Do you understand? Or, like, as a black guy growing up, you're supposed to be good at sport, you're supposed to be on the football team or the best at athletics and all of those type of things. That wasn't me. Again, how many guys bang out consoles and stuff, but the hand-eye coordination again, that wasn't me. What did that mean? Every game that I played with friends, I lost, even though I wanted to win. I lost like I had to be good at, you know, playing against myself. Do you understand what I'm saying and that? And guys can be guys especially, but the world can be quite mean to people that when, when you find difficulties and and get things strange and stuff like that, as a black man, understanding that I was distracted meant that when you know, when you grow up, people used to tell people that oh, as a black person, you have to work time two or three times as harder than your black, white counterparts that irritates me sometimes.
Speaker 1:I actually find that quite problematic, but yeah, I like yeah, let's discuss that yeah, yeah, okay, but then you know that.
Speaker 2:Then I knew that, as a distracted person, I would have to work harder as well, like two or three times as harder than my neurodivergent counterpart. So there was a lot of internalized pressure that, wow, because I'm black and dyspraxic, I probably have to work two to the three times as hard, or two times three times harder. And so and I know that's very problematic and you know we live in a world where now, as things are changing and people are becoming more awake to, you know, diversity and inclusion, you could ask yourselves why do I need to work just as hard or harder than other people? But the reality is there are systems that have been that that, the way society has been structured, you have to do what you have to do, because we're not about surviving, we're about thriving, right, you know? So that was a bit about my story, to the point that when I was in year 11, I did 13 GCSEs and I got the award in my school for endurance because I just worked hard, I grinded it out.
Speaker 2:But because of the hard work and the brilliant yeah trigger warning at school, I was quoting like spastic and retard and stuff like that. It wasn't really good. It had a really bad impact on my self-esteem and just how I saw myself in the world. Those two things combined meant that when I was 16, I had a mental breakdown and I couldn't take being in school anymore and it meant that I had to take a year out and start again in year 12. And it was then that I got another diagnosis of dyspraxia and it a private event and I would shout out to my parents because my parents did some make some decisions in my life that made things easier for me and it was just because of the money that they had available. So, for example, being in private school on smaller classrooms, there was some therapy that they paid for my for dyspraxia that caused me to, um, just get more coordinated and everything like that that I had to do once in the morning, once at night. But even when I was 16 I had that breakdown and everything. I got re-diagnosed and reassessed all of the NHS and stuff.
Speaker 2:And I think that's why I started the Black Dispatcher, because I realised actually I'm so thankful for the privilege and the fortunes that I have and that have made me who I am. But I realised that a lot of people, especially people from my community, don't have the same privileges and I wanted to advocate for them as well. But I know that sometimes it's not just a cultural issue, it's also a socioeconomic issue. But a lot of people, especially at the back, they'll be like there's nothing wrong with you. Did you not do your GCSE? Did you not do your A-levels? Have you not gone to a university? Ah, just pray about it. I know what they think.
Speaker 2:I believe in prayer, by the way yeah, I do too I believe what god cannot do does not exist, and god is a miracle working god. However, um, sometimes your prayer needs to be god. The brain that you've given me, how can I use it to grow for you?
Speaker 2:you know, you know your grace is sufficient, do you understand? Give me the patience that I need, give me the wisdom that I need, but you're not saying change who I am. You understand what I'm saying? So it's yeah, that's one of the my faith has been really important to me. Um, I gave, I gave my life to Christ, like when I was sick. I'm rambling so maybe I'll stop there, but yeah, that's a bit. No, when you were saying that it made me was six. I'm rambling so maybe I'll stop there, but yeah that's a bit no when you were saying that.
Speaker 1:It made me think of I'm a Christian as well, but it made me think of a scripture about Paul who had a thorn in his leg. Yeah, yeah, and he prayed for God to remove it, but he never had it removed. And that makes me think about, you know, neurodiversity. Like I remember very much when I was younger, being undiagnosed with dyslexia and knowing that my brain wasn't like everybody else.
Speaker 1:And I used to pray to God like, oh God, would you like just change, give me a new brain? Like, take this brain out and give me a brand new brain that can think properly, because I'm just getting frustrated with the brain that you've given me.
Speaker 2:But over time.
Speaker 1:I've just learned that this is the brain I have and this is how my mind works and I have to use it to my strength and not focus on what is not good and not what is not good about my brain. What is good about my brain? What? What can I gain from having a dyslexic mind? Yeah, and it's taken me a long time to get here. Even there are times even I have to. I revert back to being ashamed or embarrassed of my dyslexia, but I have to go no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 2:This is how you are and it's okay this is why sometimes I flip it, that instead of I talk with people, that instead of saying god, please take away my dyspraxia or my ed or autism, you can say God, how does this dyspraxia or my brain link to my purpose? What do you want me?
Speaker 1:to do about it.
Speaker 2:What can I do with the brain that you've given me to give you glory? Hence why I did the black dyspraxic, you know, because I'd be like you know, yeah, I have difficulties, I have challenges, but you know what With God, like you know, yeah, I have difficulties, I have challenges, but you know what we've got. All things are possible. You understand what I'm saying. It's connected to my purpose, it's giving me a message. You understand what I'm saying and that and that's what it needs to be about. But so I think there's a lot more nuance, because I tell people, because I know there's some people in our generation that we know, when they're talking about this kind of thing, especially neurodivergent or disability and faith, they want a kind of rubbish Christianity or rubbish faith and just medical literature.
Speaker 2:It's just in the last few years that even those guys are realizing that actually there's a strength to autism and strength to this. These things are very, very new. And even if you think about the language right, adhd what does the D stand for? Disorder? You understand what I'm saying? Dcd, developmental disorder. You know that DYS in dyslexia and DYS in dyspraxia is difficult. Do you understand what I'm saying? So we can't deny that. Oh, there's nothing. You know, it's only in the last maybe two decades, with the advent of the world, neurodiversity and and and the, the movement that is growing that has challenged that. And that challenge is a social justice challenge. It was like, actually, maybe this is because people are just different and there's variations. Do you understand?
Speaker 1:so, yeah, um, I was gonna ask you this but you've kind of answered it a little bit. But what is giving you the resilience, the determination to just believe that you can overcome obstacles, and how do you think that can help other people who may be in the same position as you like? Maybe they're going to school or maybe they're in the workplace and they they have they have a neurodiverse condition, or they might be masking their neurodiverse condition. How can, how can it overcome that and how can it have resilience, like you to me, because you see, like a very resilient guy, because some people just might not have the same level of resilience you, you do. Thank you.
Speaker 2:Thank you for that, and that compliment is making me blush. It's bringing the dimples up. To be honest, I'll be lying to you if I answered this question without saying, first of all, the grace of God, god has helped me. I think my faith has caused me to become resilient, because you're not. You're like you know, especially when you read scriptures, and you're like you know what. When you're like you know, especially when you read scriptures, and you're like you know what and when you like, if you really serve a god that can do exceedingly and abundantly more than you can ever ask or think, it changes your perspective. Do you understand? Or even scriptures that say things like I have the mind of christ? It's like whether this practical not I have god's mind is in me. Do you understand what I'm saying? And it allows me to do so? That perspective has really helped me to be like step up. I think it's also there's a part of me. I think for a long time.
Speaker 2:It's not that I didn't accept that I was dyspraxic, but I just didn't let it like limit me. It's like's like no like. If everyone in my class is doing 13 GCSEs, I'm going to do 13 GCSEs as well, like you know, I think I was one of the people that came top of myself because I'm like you know, I'm not a doctor now, but back then I wanted to do medicine and people were like how can you do like my mum asked me, like you struggle with coordination, like your hands shake. How can you do like my mom ever before used to ask me like you struggle with coordination, like dexterity, your hands shake. How are you going to do surgery? I said I don't care, this is what I want to do.
Speaker 2:And guess what? That propelled me in my A-levels and I got the medical offer. I just didn't get the grades. That's another story for the other day I probably got distracted, but the thing is is it just had that mentality and it made me want to go. I went to uni, did medical science, and it was just. I've never stood to as a reason for me not to do something. My mum and me used to say if you want to me to do something, just tell me. You cannot do it. But with that being said, and I'm going to just be real with you and level with you, the older you get.
Speaker 2:The older I become and the more I find out about neurodivergence and advocacy and the statistics, it's sometimes harder to become as resilient as I was when I was younger.
Speaker 2:I think when I was younger I used to have a little bit of an audacity. But the thing is, I think now when you're seeing you know I'm 31 now and you're seeing other people doing incredible things you're like, wow, you understand, but I always have to check myself and some other incredible people to be like, no, no, I have source as well, I've got I think when you're younger and not to take away from the neurodiversity, but I think when you're younger you have that naivety so you just think it's possible.
Speaker 1:But when you, when you're older, like you've seen stuff, that kind of knocks you back a little. You're like, yeah, I keep trying, you know back a little You're like, oh, should I keep trying?
Speaker 2:You know the reality. But I feel like everybody needs to have that audacity, because it's that audacity that's going to cause you to go to work. It's that audacity that's going to cause you to offer more pay to negotiate. It's that audacity that's going to cause you to leave a job when you need to leave a job. It's that audacity that's going to cause you to leave a job when you need to leave a job. It's that audacity that's going to pull you to start that business. It's that audacity that's going to pull you to level up. It's that audacity that's going to ask a guy to move to approach that woman that he's been eyeing for the last few months. Like audacity and confidence is needed in this life and maybe because I'm a nigerian guy nigerians especially we have it. We have confidence in abundance. I don't know why we do.
Speaker 1:Yes, we do, yeah, um, and kind of like linking onto that. You talked about meeting the right woman and I know you are married to me. You've been married for about two years. We had this conversation offline as well.
Speaker 2:I don't know. I didn't know you were gonna go there, but okay, yeah we had this.
Speaker 1:We had this conversation offline and, um, you told me a story about how you met your wife and what you thought about in terms of being a dyspraxic man, and you were the first man in, in having love and meeting the right person. Do you want to talk to us about that a little?
Speaker 2:bit. Okay, let's just be story time and let me just be a bit vulnerable. So one of the things about this last year and my life journey is I learned about empathy and being very empathetic and I like to talk and when I got to the time of like 15, 16, I was getting really quite a lot, especially by the guys the men then, especially, because not good at football, not good at certain things that the guys wanted to do and the people, the people that actually treated me like a human, like a friend, were the ladies around me. I think the first person to call me her best friend as a teenager was a lady and I was very, very thankful for the friends, my sisters, that I've had along the way and I'm getting somewhere. Okay, growing up as a teenager, then going to uni, the sisters kept on collecting and you know, sisters in church, sisters in university, and I was just like, actually some of these sisters they're looking kind of nice, you know. But you know what happened and it happened quite a few times is any time I would approach quite a few times I would approach certain sisters to be like oh, we connect, can we go on a date, can we do these things. They'll be like, no, like, oh, not like that, but no, in terms of you're an amazing guy, but I see you like a friend, I see you like a brother, that kind of thing.
Speaker 2:And so growing up, especially in my early 20s not even early 20s, even before I met my wife, like, like, even like I always thought like the reason why girls didn't like me in that way was because of my neurodivergence, and so it was a big insecurity of mine because I would be like I would even get things where girls would say I wish my boyfriend was more like you or I wish more men were more like you, and I was like, hold on, like I'm really confused. You know that type of guy that would talk on the phone to girls for hours and everything like that, either late, or you know, I was that guy on campus. I was cooking food for people, walking people anywhere everywhere and stuff like that, and there was a lot of things, but when it came to actually finding love, it was. You know, people just didn't see me that way.
Speaker 2:Looking back, it was a great thing, because now I have incredible friends, but it really really affected my confidence, to the point that my mum said to me actually, maybe you're just in the wrong market, maybe you need to mix it up a bit, because maybe it's our African women that just don't like disability and maybe, if you mix the art, you may be able to change your predicament. Now you know, I'm all for equal and equalities. I'm not a racist, but I need a black girl in my life. Like a black woman, you know, I like chocolate, do you understand? And I growing up even growing up in Essex, being in schools or surroundings in white-dominated spaces I was just like, no, I want a black woman and everything like that. And in 2020, I found my wife. Do you understand what?
Speaker 2:I'm saying during the pandemic, during the pandemic, the silver lining, the the thing. And you know, I'm that type of person because I had this. I have this policy kind of like interviews as well, but I have this. By then I had already started the black dyspraxia. But even before that, when I speak to girls or anyone that is interested in me, I tell them about dyspraxia quite quickly, do you understand? Because it's like I don't want to waste your time, you don't want to waste my time, yeah, etc. And, by the way, I'm not going to say that I didn't have relationships in my 20s. There were. There were some shifts, but you know things didn't work out and I think the disruptor was a lot to do with it.
Speaker 2:You know I could be wrong, but my wife was like no, I see for you, I remember, because my wife was living in nigeria at the time, because that's where she was based. Um, shout out to my queen, harmony, if you're listening to this, I love you. But I know one of the first gifts I sent to her was a book about adults and dyspraxia and she started reading it. She said I didn't want to finish the book. I said why? I've told I wanted you to read it, so you have a real big understanding. She said no, because I want to know you for you. I don't want to see you based on dyspraxia. I want to love you for you Because if I love you based on other things, I may treat you differently, because I know the culture, I know where I'm from, but I want to know when I see you as my husband. I don't want to see the black dyspraxia. I want to know to me Do you understand what I'm saying?
Speaker 2:And she's been so accommodating, so understanding, but she's like she's very, very reaffirming in the sense that, yes, I know you have challenges, but I believe you can do it. So right now I can't drive and she's learning to drive and I've had driving lessons and stuff. She loves driving. She's like you're gonna drive eventually. You understand what I'm saying because she's like I believe in you and and I think she's also dyslexic as well but just that understanding that she's here and actually, to be honest, the fact that she's in in my life is just the grace of god, because just how it worked out, because, funny enough, my mom that told me that I would only that maybe I should consider entertaining, dating other races which, by the way. I'm gonna say again I don't have a problem, but it just wasn't my preference.
Speaker 2:She actually introduced me to my wife comic wife because my mum and her mum were actually friends from uni, wow yeah. And we did the whole long-distance thing for a few years and then we got married and I still find it weird'm baffling that somebody will leave the continent of africa to be with me, like before she left, before she saw me. She had never been to the uk before and she came to the country because of me and we're doing it. You know, I say that my wife is not an immigrant, she's an expat of love. Do you understand?
Speaker 1:Definitely she went to the UK.
Speaker 2:And the thing is I always say this it's made me even think differently about you. Know how our parents said when I came, I came in a suitcase and stuff like that. My wife is living that journey, Do you understand? Yeah, I don't think a lot of british born africans realize that struggle or have difficulty or even the whole process of getting indefinitely to remain and get up. Yeah, it's expensive, but that's another conversation.
Speaker 1:that's another yeah, it's struggle, it's not easy and they're dealing with all the other stuff that comes with it because my my dad's no longer alive, but he came to the uk in the 60s yeah and um, yeah, he tells me stories about you know, when he first came to the uk he actually settled in birmingham and, um, he tried to sit there with his family there at the time um, my dad was married before he met my mom, by the way, sort of thing but like, um, yeah, they literally had in the doors no dogs, no Irish, no blacks, that whole thing.
Speaker 1:He lived through that and yeah, he tells me. He used to tell me stories about how, like it was very challenging when he came here, because he came here on a medical like a they were to come to UK to work in the NHS and he applied and he got a job working as a nurse. So that's how he got his like stay there, but it wasn't easy and he only got there and then he brought his family afterwards so like yeah, it's not easy.
Speaker 1:It's not been. It wasn't easy for him and he dealt with a lot of discrimination and racism. It was, it was rampant around that time like my, my dad.
Speaker 2:my dad was born in the UK as well, in the 60s oh. And he was actually in foster care, but he was like he remember. But he went back to Nigeria when he was like nine or 11.
Speaker 2:Oh, and he remember where people used to tell him oh, you're going to be going back to mud huts and like tree houses and stuff, and as a young guy he didn't think anything of it because he didn't know what Africa was like. And even when he wanted to come back in the 80s because my grandma and my grandpa were working in the 60s and stuff like that I'm 50, in the UK they actually didn't want him to go back. Go come to the UK because of the racism and things that they felt't want him to go back. Go come to the UK because of the racism and things that they felt. And this racism is still here. Do you understand what I'm saying? It's very different from how it was. How can you say no Blacks, no dogs, no Irish Stuff like that? You know that guy that said what he said about Diane Abbott. That's how you know that. It's actually still out there, you know.
Speaker 1:But but it's it's. It's hidden like yeah is that what kanye? West. Is that kanye west says there yeah?
Speaker 2:it's not something, no, but the thing is, it's not even hidden sometimes no, it's not.
Speaker 1:It's not, it's actually not hidden.
Speaker 2:It's actually very, very obvious. But we move and I think this is why, as blacks, never divergent individuals, you're like whoa, if that's how you feel about the color of my skin, how would you feel when I now tell you about my life? How you would you feel when I now tell you what I'm going to do? Would you give me the opportunities? Would you do? You understand what I'm saying? And this is why, when we talk about intersectionality and it's the multiple marginalization these things compound. The same way we have, like compound interest or compound savings, where things build on top these barriers like compound, and sometimes we know statistically they do. But then there's an also an internal battle in every black person, but every black neurodivergent, to not live by that and not to be compact, not to live under that modernization. In a sense, I don't want to say not play the victim, but in a sense that you don't have to live by that narrative. You understand, it's not a what is me? I'm black and distracted, therefore I can't achieve anything. It's not, it's that's the reality. Yes, there's struggles, yes, there's challenges, but we can still level up. But and the thing is, it's like just because I advocate and I make you aware of those challenges doesn't mean I'm playing the victim, I'm just saying look, these are what it is. These are the challenges. Challenges, these are the obstacles.
Speaker 2:Yes, there are systematic structures that host, that make things harder for certain people, but it doesn't mean that these barriers cannot be broken. It doesn't mean that with the right network, with the right to pull, and, by the grace of God, things can. But it requires intentionality, it requires diligence, it requires being savvy, like all these things, because, like I said, one of the reasons why I am the person I am today, yes, it's god, but I know that my parents were able to pay for certain things that certain people don't have weren't able to pay for. Like, money gives you options, right, I went to school I went to private school.
Speaker 2:I my diagnosis with dyspraxia will come privately. You know the way this the system is, with the nhs, with public services, with the state school system, having like living at the mercy of the government, like it's not the one, but unfortunately, the reality is a lot of people are living like that, and especially a lot of people that have the same ethnicity as I do. Do you understand what I'm saying? And it's like it's not to say worries me, but it's the reality and like sometimes one of the reasons that we need to push for financial freedom and generational wealth. It's not so that we can flex, it's not so that we can go to Dubai or any other thing that's great, but actually it's so that we can have those options for ourselves and for our children. Do you understand what I'm saying? So that we can be in a place where, if we had a child that was neurodivergent, we can actually pay for that diagnosis and get that help.
Speaker 2:You know, we see things like oh, richard Branson, daniel Radcliffe they were neurodivergent people that people talk about. Yeah, but they were. Most of them came from middle-class families. Most of them were in grammar schools or small schools where people were looking at and giving them the help and support. So you realize that sometimes when we talk about being Black and neurodivergent, yes, these things exist, but actually the mechanism by some of the challenges is actually socioeconomic, yeah, and so sometimes I always talk about geographic inequalities as well. I always talk about geographic inequalities as well because I know that the realities of a white guy that lives in the southeast of England that is never divergent may be different from a white guy that lives in the northeast of England yeah, and yeah, some people don't even talk about you know, but it's the reality.
Speaker 1:I wanted to talk to you about your speaking engagements and you've been quite successful as a neurodivergent influencer. I'm going to call you that.
Speaker 2:I hope you're okay with that. You didn't just do that. I'm an influencer. The fact that you're an influencer, please.
Speaker 1:So you're somebody who has an impact on people in the neurodiversity space, so you influence people that's how I see you as I know it's quite a corny term that people don't really like, but that's how I kind of see you as. So how have you managed to gain success in the neurodiverse world? Because we have a few, particularly we have a few black um faces within the neurodiversity world and you're one that comes up.
Speaker 1:You've managed to kind of pave your way around that and yeah you're an inspiration to other neurodivergents who are looking at you, thinking, oh, I can navigate my neurodiversity because of to me we've got other people like. Vivian, who does ADHD Babes. We've got Marcia, who is the black dyslexic, and you fall into that category as well.
Speaker 2:And the list goes on. There's Vemi, there's Onyengye there's a lot of there's Onyanyay, there's a lot of, and there's your soul.
Speaker 1:I don't like to put myself too much, but yeah.
Speaker 2:Thank you for that. I would say, obviously, as I've said that, enough. I can't do this without God, so let's just but with what I've been able to achieve with the Black Dispatch, I'm just going to keep it very real. Teams, People have helped me. I have not posted one thing on the Black Dispatch by myself without somebody checking it. The person that helped me before is different from the person that helped people that help me now. But when I started it was my friend that we went to school together, so she got it and she has a social media company, aj2. And she also runs not sure if you know Vibes of a Black Girl.
Speaker 1:Oh, yes, I do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she's a good friend of mine and she helped me like with the logo, with the page and stuff like that, and that's how I started. But actually before that, it was actually because I was invited to a talk by Remy Ray, and the reason why I was invited and I think this is one of the reasons why I like to do it because she was looking for another black, never divergent man to join a panel and my friend shout out to my friend Naomi as well. She saw that and she said on LinkedIn I said this is something I think you might be interested in. And I was just like, okay, it was for Black History, black History Month 2019. I saw that and I was just like, yeah, I'm on that, I'm gonna do it. And I actually invited people, told a lot of people from my friends, my network and like 15 15 to 20 of my friends were in the room. It was the largest participation in the room.
Speaker 2:Like I came with a tribe. You know Us Nigerian people, we don't like to just see things in the cellar. So I came with a multitude and I really enjoyed it, just speaking about my truth, and it was the first time that I've done that and I say this all the time, it's not that it was the first time I've spoken about this back to publicly, because you know I always share about this fact, but it was in the church setting in like testimony time, like just saying about how good god has been like, even though parents sort of things would be difficult, but this is what god has done. But now I would literally just transfer that to you know, a more formal public setting, and from that experience I'd already been thinking about the black dyspraxia anyway, because on my actual page I used to tag um, I used to tag the black dyspraxia before I started the page, but I was just like that event was the catalyst to be like nah.
Speaker 2:I'm going to do it, so I did that 2019. Obviously, we know that 2020 lockdown, what just fluid happened and everything like that Just kind of just riding that just I don't want to say riding that wave but I was like, okay, these are the issues. And I just started just talking about this, you understand, and I think in 2020. I remember one post that I made and I tagged a friend, nancy Doyle, who was the founder of Genius Within, become a really good friend, mental now, but I didn't know that she was also a contributor to Forbes magazine. And then she was just like, oh, you know, we started talking. She was like, oh, can you contribute to my magazine, to Forbes?
Speaker 2:I was like, of course, and then that was like in 2020 and like, since then it's just been just yeah, just different things building momentum every day but then also focusing on my niche right, and I love the fact that now I'm distracted, because there's a lot of people that talk about dyslexia, adhd and stuff, but very few people that are distracted. Do you understand that I talk about it a lot, especially in our community, but then also trying to bring that masculinity piece because I don't even think we've talked about them a lot of it, because there's there's a lot of other things that because you know, as a man, there's certain expectations that you're supposed to be good at. You're supposed to be the person that does DIY. You're supposed to be the one that's good at finances. You're supposed to be the person that does DIY. You're supposed to be the one that's good at finances. You're supposed to be the one that's going to drive the family.
Speaker 2:These are things that are not naturally me. Do you understand what I'm saying? And I feel like I need to do what I can to encourage and inspire not just black people and not just the world around me, but men that say you know what? It's okay to be vulnerable, it's okay to have difficulties and talk about them. Do you understand what I'm saying? And you can talk about them in a way that inspires people and also create an income for yourself, if that's what you want to do, and it's just different things like that. I've had fun, I've had good times, I've you know, spoken to on fun.
Speaker 2:I've had good times. I've, you know, spoken to on broadcast. I've been part of brawls and stuff like that, but we're just getting started. But another thing that I wanted to tell, like part of my journey, is that I've been part of the Dispect it Foundation, a charity that has, like, recently announced that they were going to close, but I've been part of that charity since I was 16 17 I was going to ask you about that, actually about the um charity closing down.
Speaker 1:I mean, how has that made you feel if we don't have kind of the support for this niche particular?
Speaker 2:niche neurodiverse condition yeah, I didn't, I didn't expect it. I was like wow, okay, because especially the didn't I didn't expect it. I was like wow, okay, because especially the reason why I didn't expect it was because right now neurodiversity is like the awareness is increasing. Do you understand?
Speaker 2:yeah, and so it hurt, it cut deep, but it made me realize, it actually made me more intense about my vision that my purpose that okay, cool, I need. That's why when I was in the houses of of Parliament this week you know, sometimes you have to slide that in as well when I was there I actually had to tell them that you know what we are talking about the neurodiversity screening but we need to talk about this practice, we need to talk about threats, we need to talk about all these things, and I think it just goes to show that in the cost of living places, when things are low, and especially when there's been inflation and there's been so many economic mismanagement by the government, certain charities that are doing amazing work sometimes have to fall. It's harder to get funding right now because everybody is feeling the pain and minorities unfortunately miss out it hits us harder actually because some of these charities in the voluntary sector support the minorities.
Speaker 2:That minority could be it could be due to education, it could be sexual orientation, it could be sexual orientation, it could be a disability. There's a lot of charities that pick up the slack that government and the fee market cannot do, do you understand? And so we need to. We need to be careful, and this is why economic decisions affect people. Sorry, I'm an economist so I could, yeah, talk about that, but yeah um.
Speaker 1:I wanted to talk deeper into um what it means for you to um navigate daily as a dyspraxic so like, for example, part of your part of your um your work is to do speaking gigs. But the daily challenges that you might meet each day, that you have to deal with because of this Brexit and people to understand that.
Speaker 2:Okay. So even just challenges. Sometimes I struggle with sleep and sometimes I struggle to get a good sleep over the end, like, yeah, before I start I want to say I haven't figured out everything. So sometimes, because I struggle to sleep, I struggle to wake up on time. Now the challenges start from the morning Organization. Where did I put my not even my top? Where's my underwear? Where's all of this type of thing? You know, my wife sometimes looks at me and be like how did you survive without me? And the funny thing is, before I got married it's not like I was living with family and stuff. I've been in Newcastle for like some time before she came, you know, I've been in Newcastle for like some time before she came, you know. So once you find everything putting things together, I still struggle to tie my belt, because when you're doing the whole thing, at the back and everything like that.
Speaker 1:you know, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Or you know grooming myself, so you know how guys, especially black guys, you can tell if your hair is not clean. Do you understand?
Speaker 1:what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know how guys, especially black guys, you can tell if your hair is not clean.
Speaker 2:But the thing is, I think the way I've grown around, that is, I don't necessarily live in places where there's a lot of black people. So I say I've lived in newcastle, lived in york, lived in exeter, but those kind of type of things. So can you see, I've haven't already. I haven't even left the house and there's already challenges. Do you understand that sense of time? Okay, I need to get to somewhere on time, but it should take me 20, 30 minutes to leave that why? Because I want to listen to a podcast, I want to just chill on the phone. I can get very distracted when I'm not actually. But no, I need to do something. I don't do things quickly. So, okay, we've talked about that. Tying in shoelaces. It's a mess, but I still, I still wanna if you see some of my shoelaces, most of my shoelaces, especially my trainers the the tip is has been threaded yes, yeah yeah, or maybe can we pause it so I can bring a shoe to to discover.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, yeah okay, cool, so can you see this? Oh yes, I can see it that's very standard for trainers of my. Well, you know that the top should have been plastic. Yes, yeah, but that's got from me not tying my shoelaces, I mean walking on it all the time do you understand? What I'm saying, the inability to tie. Yeah, that's just an example, and most of my trainers are like that. Now, when people can say, but by trainers that don't have shoelaces, well, I still want to be fashionable, right?
Speaker 1:I get it.
Speaker 2:I did that, and Nike haven't been very inclusive when it talks to you about shoes. So, and then formal things like ties, tight end ties, if you think about it, especially like cufflinks. There's a lot of things, clothes that just require coordination. Notice that I'm talking about my day. I haven't left the house yet. Now I have to make sure that I remember my phone and my wallet that's sticky I. I haven't found my wallet for the last five days. Shout out to um apple wallet with the ip thing that's a saving grace.
Speaker 2:So okay, now that I've finally Left my house, you know, going to work obviously that's standard because I know where I'm supposed to be and everything like that. I walk quite slowly but I get there. But I don't Really sometimes do I get there on time. I always get there a few minutes late, but luckily. One of the things for me Is I've always been in academia, I did an internship with academia, I worked in academia for well, and I think one of the benefits of academia is sometimes it's a slower pace than corporates.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and a bit more understanding, because with an academic space, is you're thinking about yes, you are thinking about the publication and the research, but you're not driven by profits like that yeah, and I think sometimes. That's why I've stayed here and I haven't really ventured out into, like the private sector, even though private sector I could arguably be making a lot more than what I'm making now. It's good for me. You, you understand what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:To stay in it.
Speaker 2:Think about it. Universities support neurodivergent students. So if they do that, imagine what they do to stuff. Not to say that there's no difficulties, but it is what it is. So I get to work. Now I have a laptop and I have all these things with access to work. Everything's been patterned, you understand, because I've known for a long time that I've been neurodivergent, you know. So I got to work. I always have my headphones in, I'm always listening to radio or podcasts, you know, and just tuning into work, or podcasts, you know, and just tuning into work.
Speaker 2:But work sometimes is difficult. Because I'm a researcher, there's a lot of documents to read, complicated medical journal jargon, because I work in health, economics, I find writing difficult and everything like that, and sometimes I just forget stuff. And even I've had conversations with my manager even this week about the certain things that, because I've been working there for six years now, the certain things that I now need to step up, I need to get better at. But that's kind of like my general day, but I do that. But as, as I'm working, I'm also creating content, I'm also trying to create, you know, and I've really tried to level up this month, but, again, the only way I could do that is because I have a team around me my sister, my, my, my wife helps me with the recording, she helps me with emails and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:My sister-in-law has been helping with the editing. You know, you see the revamp. That's my sister-in-law Shout out to my sister-in-law In Nigeria. She's in Abuja just doing the edits and stuff like that Wow. We talk about that.
Speaker 1:I need to get your sister-in-law's details because I think my husband is looking for someone to do edits for his um instagram and for you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah but this is what I talk about the power of things and the power of having your unit.
Speaker 2:You understand what I'm saying and that's kind of my day and that's what I do. You know, sometimes there's church, sometimes there's coaching. I love to tell you that every day I plan and I and I schedule my day and I have my calendar and my diary. No, it doesn't work like that. I need to get like that and very soon, by God's grace, I will have the funds to to buy like a, to not buy but to have like an E, like a personal assistant or an.
Speaker 2:EA and because I I put a. I put a post together about strategies for a disruptive and when I was creating that post I had to reflect and be like some of these strategies I just can't do or I haven't been able to master them, do you understand? But I know can't do or I haven't been able to master them, do you understand? But I know. With the organization piece, I know how important organization and systems are if I want to get to where I want to be in life you understand what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:If I want to be an entrepreneur and an academic and a person of impact and I really want a skill you can't do that without being organized, yeah, or having systems, or having systems, or having somebody in your team that is organized, that can organize you. Do you understand what I'm saying? So maybe I need a project manager, like my wife is starting to be a project manager. She's using the qualifications now. Do you understand? Because sometimes my mom used to say this Focus on your strengths and use money to get people to medicate your weaknesses. That's what it means to work in teams, no matter if it's an island you work in teams Do you understand.
Speaker 2:That's the same way. If you're struggling with your finances, you find an accountant. If you have a legal thing, you get a lawyer it's the same thing if you're struggling with an organisation, you find a personal assistant. However, if it's cost and we need to generate an income for us, but it's finding that balance of what is worth.
Speaker 1:What is worth more my time or my money? Can I forgo this in order for me to move forward, because sometimes investing in things like that can help you make more money.
Speaker 2:It's almost finding that balance however, it is finding that balance, but sometimes, when you're not earning enough to even do, you also have to look at your budget. You understand what.
Speaker 1:Understand what I'm saying I like it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's that mindset. But investing in your team is incredible. Do you understand? I think I spoke to you earlier about my coach, like having a mentor, you know you have to pay for sometimes Because you have to value someone's time. We get what you put in. Do you understand what I'm saying? So luckily we have in you? Do you understand what I'm saying? So luckily with access to work. One of the things I have about access to work and I'm trying to navigate this now is that you can get support for your nine to five, but it looks like you need to get a separate application to get support for your business and I don't want support just for my nine to five. I wasn't going to be. I want to put for everything I do and but they're different, because your line manager cannot give you support for your public speaking gigs. Do you understand? Because it's a different thing.
Speaker 1:It's different yeah.
Speaker 2:And you know that as a business, to be eligible, there's a certain amount of money that you have to be turning over every year to be eligible, and one of my goals for this year to make sure I'm earning that amount so that I can be eligible for that. So it's not sometimes it's not as easy as get someone. You know you talk about mental health. Just find a therapist. You pay because it's a value. It's a value, it's an investment, you know, and it's like but it's even finding the right therapist as well.
Speaker 2:Exactly that understands your needs yeah, exactly, but not even just that. Some of us don't and we say that it's an investment. You know everyone's like oh yeah, but you do know that it's just a nando's or you know it's just, you know, for going a trip to the cinema and stuff. Well, what if you're in a position where you're not even doing those things anyway? Do you understand?
Speaker 1:what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:So you have to relate and understand that people are different, do you understand? Because we know that, okay, we need gym, we need a therapist, we need all these things, but there's a lot of privilege that gets to those things, but there's a luxury and a privilege that gets to this, do you understand? So, like I said originally, money gives you options.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it does. We all need to get that paper. I wanted to ask you more about the support your family has given you with your neurodiverse condition and being dyspraxic, because you talked about the fact that you've been very fortunate, um, having a family that kind of understood your, like, your neurodiversity. But also have you faced, maybe, people seeing you different, maybe not directly in your family, but maybe outside of your family or within your community?
Speaker 2:okay. So it's interesting because I do have support from my family. I think one of the things that helped me my mum was a pharmacist, so she was practicing a clear but also, I think, the fact that I was very different earlier on. I got the diagnosis very early. My parents did what they needed to do the diagnosis very early. My parents did what they needed to do and, for example and I'll say this, one of the you know someone that has done a really amazing job in the neurodiversity space, especially in dyspraxia, is called Professor Amanda Kirby. Not sure if you know her, but I grew up with her books in my house, like my mom, my dad had leaflets of like. There was a dyspraxia and dyslexia and ADHD network that my dad was going to at 2007, 2008, just to support. These are the times when there was no people and stuff.
Speaker 1:There was nothing here.
Speaker 2:They did what they could. Do you understand, when the funds were needed to be invested, the funds were there, and so that support was always there. Remember, it was just a reality. But I think sometimes, looking back, I was one of five I felt like my mom and dad sometimes put a lot of attention on me. Because of that and also me being the oldest guy as well, there was just a lot of attention and stuff like I'm very, very fortunate, but my siblings were always there as well. You know there was a lot of. Can you help Timmy do this? Can you help Timmy do that?
Speaker 2:However, the older you get, you see that the family support is different or sometimes they can judge you. So my mum, for example and I love my mum to bits she helped everybody else to drive. She sat with them, drove with me. She's like, sorry, I can't do it. She was just like I've seen you bump into things when you're walking. You lack spatial awareness. She's just like I'm still. I've seen you bump into things when you're walking. You lack spatial awareness. She's just like this is kids exactly. Do you understand what I'm saying? I don't know how can you blame me like that, but it's reality and it's a kind of thing where sometimes, where, especially when you've been diagnosed so early, there were some times when my parents would say you can't do something because you are autistic. We're worried of you because of it. Say, for example, my dad. One of the reasons why we moved from South East London to Essex, my dad, was like you can't play with the guys on the street.
Speaker 2:If you had to run away from somewhere, you're the first one to get caught. Do you understand what I'm saying? You know how, like when you're in the streets not on the streets but you know how there's rainings and sometimes you have to jump over and you just that's not and there's kind of You're talking about, you know, southeast, back in the yeah.
Speaker 2:I know my mum would never be like, nah, this is the thing that will work. But the thing is, they always encouraged me because one of the things that they told my doctor at that age was that my intelligence was above average.
Speaker 2:So they always reminded me that academics is your thing, that you've got this, you know. So, yeah, there has been support. There's also been support from fans and just family members as well, because thanks, babe, just that kind of thing where because, yeah, my community has always been there, especially out of school cousins, friends, people that didn't just see, they don't see this factor, they just saw me, me Someone that was bubbly, someone that liked to joke, you know. But when I was in school, it really knocked my confidence. I remember going to a six-month open day and my friend at the time she saw me outside of school but engaged in other people my age and she was just like, wow, you have such great charisma and I've never seen you like that. You understand what I'm saying, but yeah, it was just such a difference of you know when you are good, when you know when you're in your environment, where people see you as left. Then, when I got to other places where people didn't see me like that, I really shone. You know. That's one of the reasons why I always tell people that the time that I discovered myself, self self-acceptance was in university. Those days were the best days for me, in the sense that I feel like every neurodivergent person has that time, that coming of age, where you recognize your strengths or weaknesses and stuff. You're like this is me.
Speaker 2:That was university, and I'll tell you why. Because in university, my first year, there were issues with our ACS. People were complaining and stuff and they said why don't you run? Someone asked me why don't I run to be ACS president? I was like me. They were like, yeah, and I ran and I went for it and I became ACS president of Exeter and you know I led a committee of eight people, you know, and I was also on the committee of NEMA, which was the outreach, which was a Christian society, and the founder of NEMA was dyslexic as well and he was all about raising up leaders and stuff. But that ACF thing being that as a student, like at university, I had so many friends and it was just, it was a coming of age moment for me. Why? Because as president, I can suggest ideas, I can lead, I can think about wanting to do different things differently, but for the first time in my life I didn't have to be the one that was responsible for execution. I could say, let's do this or why don't we think about this event? And my social sector sorted it out, and the publicity sector we deal with marketing. I just have to make sure that we're leading and that we're keeping the team spirit and we changed the game for our ACN and, you know, built a legacy.
Speaker 2:I remember on the election night, everybody wrote their speech. I wrote it out like this is what I'm going to do. I just spoke to my heart. I remembered my speech. I love it, and it was just like there's certain characteristics and skills that I understood that I had, that I only found out in uni, so I didn't realise that being an extrovert or people skills or or being able to talk or or leadership skills were actually important qualities. Or being innovative and just seeing ideas, you know, and all these type of things. Like I can remember in committee meetings always suggesting this or I just want to put this out there.
Speaker 2:That was usually my phase just putting these things out there and it's realizing that, unfortunately, the way the employment system works is some of these skills that I'm mentioning, that are my strengths. They're not really for entry-level people, my strengths. They're not really for entry-level people. Some of these skills are associated with senior managers and C-suite executives and sometimes that's what makes it difficult, do you understand?
Speaker 2:Because if you've just come out of uni and you're applying for graduate jobs, tell me something that you have leadership skills. So what? Graduate jobs? Tell me something that you have leadership skills, so what? Because whatever, whatever organization you come to at the beginning, it's not about your leadership skills and all of those things. It's things that require executive function, it's detail, orientation, it's about organization and stuff. But I'm more strategy, long-term organization build. That do you understand? And yeah, I understand, just working these things out. You know, I had a conversation with one of my strategy long-term organisation. Do you understand? Yeah, I understand, just working these things out. I had a conversation with one of my line managers and I'm like I want to lead, I want to project manage, and he's like I know that, but you need to work. We need to know that you're technically enough to do the things you do at your level so that you can work towards that.
Speaker 1:Do you feel that's helpful for you as a neurodivergent person to hear that and I know that's an interesting question for me to ask.
Speaker 2:Interesting question I maybe not, but I think sometimes it is the reality. But I know this might be controversial, but my employers may not hear this, but I know that my work what I do for my 95, does not necessarily match my strength and my skill set 100%, do you understand? However, I do it for a reason. I do it for a purpose. The purpose is I mean I do it for a reason, I do it for a purpose. The purpose is I mean I work as a health economist, I work in health services and I know that where I'm going and where I'm going in future like the higher you get you can lead projects and you can do these things. But why do I work in health service research as a health economist? Because I understand that health inequalities with ethnic minorities is a big thing and as much as we want clinicians and we want nurses and doctors, we need researchers that look like us, people that can do policy and stuff. Not just Black people, but also neurodivergent people as well.
Speaker 2:Actually, people that actually get it and have that lived experience can actually now be talking to academics and say, actually, this is what you wrote or this is what we need to do, because I'll use this for an example, think about the word intersectionality. That word didn't come from a celebrity or a politician, it came from a legal scholar, a legal academic in the 80s and think about how we use it now. Do you understand, like academia and stuff, even though it's a long game, it can. It can shape society, can shape how we do things, how we think about things. And that's why, because of the long game, you know, and you know, once you have a phd and stuff like that, I'm like, if this is how much I try for my talks, now imagine when, when I'm not up to two minutes, it's the package to me, I love it you understand.
Speaker 2:So you have to remember your why and you keep on going, you keep on going. I think there's no such thing as a perfect job. Do you understand what I'm saying? I feel like, like you said, I'm in my early 30s.
Speaker 1:I don't necessarily need the perfect job as long as I know my why and the strategy I feel like we don't have to have the perfect job, but we can pick the benefits and strengths from that role and play it to our advantage.
Speaker 1:Exactly, and you can still be a good employee and do a good job and perform well in your job but also have other goals outside of work. Exactly, and we are multifaceted. We're human beings that we can be good at so many different things. Exactly, I can do my nine to that. We can be good at so many different things exactly I could do my nine to five, be very good at it, come up with good ideas, satisfy the needs of my management, but also have you know, I have this podcast, I have other things, I have a membership that I'm running, so there's all these different things I have outside of who I am, yeah, in my, in my, in my workplace, um, and I think it should be more encouraged. I feel like there's this thing about portfolio careers now A lot of people don't know that where you can still somehow do a nine to five but also be self-employed and never getting that kind of portfolio career, being a speaker, but also you're a researcher.
Speaker 1:And a lot of the time. We're not always. We don't always encourage that because people don't understand it, but it is something that it is possible for you to do and it doesn't take away from what you do when you're 9 to 5 neither.
Speaker 2:I think the first time I came across that term was from Aninye. She talked about her portfolio career, but I felt like I was even listening to a video about this today that in the next seven to ten years, your portfolio career is going to be very important. So what is your digital footprint saying? How do you add value?
Speaker 2:And I know that, for example, as an academic, as an early career researcher, not many people in academia have the business or the brand on the side like I do. But imagine, because now what I've done, just very strategically, what I've built in the community and with the Black Death Brexit now when I want to do a PhD in the community, and with the Black Death Brexit Now when I want to do a PhD in the same space, when it comes to recruiting people or making sure that my research is actually making an impact within the community, it's gold. Now I have researchers contacting me every day saying can I use your platform to recruit people into my project and stuff like that, you know, but I've built that up to that. When I start doing my own research, it's making sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So I want to always, I always like to end this, the podcast.
Speaker 2:So it's coming to the end.
Speaker 1:It's coming to the end, but we're enjoying ourselves so much, but it's coming to the end. It's coming to the end, but we're enjoying ourselves so much, but it's coming to the end. And I always like to like ask people like what are the okay, what are the three strengths of being neurodivergent, and what are the three weaknesses? Let's start with the weaknesses and then we end with the strengths and then we'll close the podcast with being neurodivergent or being dyspraxic, you could do both. You could do both, yeah.
Speaker 2:So the weaknesses with being neurodivergent again, it's different from everybody. If you've met one neurodivergent, you've only met one neurodivergent. It's really important to me. So some of the weaknesses could be executive functioning, organisation, big forgetfulness. Yeah Me. As a dyspraxia, I struggle to read. There's books that I've read and I'm like I love that title, but for me, me reading the book, it's another story. Do you understand?
Speaker 2:audio books yeah, I was about to say that thank god for audible, but I will tell you that some of the best neurodiversity neurodiversity books are not actually on the audible version, do you understand? But yeah, audible is really. It's been a game changer. But actually I'm now in this place where I actually want to discipline myself to get into within actual books as well, just because it's important, and I know that that affected my my ability to do english when I was younger and that's why I that's why I became into science and maths, because there was less writing. So there's that as well. Yeah, there's many things Positives, positives, positives, innovative.
Speaker 2:Original thinkers Resilient and pathetic. Another thing that I didn't say I think neurodivergent people, but especially myself as a dyspraxic, were jokers. When somebody has made fun of you so much and you've been the object of a joke so many times, you know how to take banter, do you understand? I don't take myself too seriously, do you understand? And that is something, and it's always being an optimist as well yeah, to me you give.
Speaker 1:You give that optimism, that optimism like to the next level, that, like it's been a joy having you on this podcast because you bring so much vibrancy, so much positivity, so much your resilience and your hard work is just like resonates in this podcast episode and I'm looking so forward to when I edit it and put it out because, um, like, I always probably say this, but like you're one of my favorite podcast guests because of the fact you give so much good energy, so um, yeah, I love it I love it and, um, I'm definitely sure the audience members and my um listeners would absolutely love this episode.
Speaker 1:Um, yes, it's going to be going on youtube and also on all the platforms that you can find podcasts. You can listen to myself and to me. Um, and before you go to me, where can people find you? Because that's so important. We need to like, we need to promote you. You're the, you're a speaker. Uh, you have a social influence. Please, where can people find you if they were looking for you? And I will put all the information of Tumi in the show notes to find him as well.
Speaker 2:You can find me on Instagram, twitter as TheBlackTestPractic, linkedin as Tumi Shotaro, and also you can check out my new website that I launched earlier this month, month in April TheBlackTestPracticcom.
Speaker 2:Amazing, amazing, thank you so much for having me thank you this was excellent and I don't know, maybe you put this in front, but I remember coming across your podcast and the way you were just talking. I think you really just talked about your faith and just seeing how you talk to your husband, seeing how you talk to, and, yeah, I was like, who is this, sarah, and how how can we be friends, how can we connect? You understand? That's why I DM'd you that day and, yeah, so I'm happy to be, to be on here now oh, amazing.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna keep putting out these podcast episodes as much as I can and meeting more and more neurodivergent people. I can tell their story and what their life has been and also navigating the corporate world and the business world as neurodivergent individuals. So thank you so much to me You've been amazing. I just want to let our audience members know about the six-week coaching program that I'll be offering for people who are neurodivergent or who want to improve in the previous episodes, but I just want to make the time to offer up to those who may be looking for help in those areas in their life, as it's a great way to learn a new skill to help you advance in your career. I'm also offering support to people who want to pass the PRINCE2 practitioner exam, because I have taken and failed the test a few times and would like to help others, showing them how I passed.
Speaker 1:I'm also launching my membership, neuro Enigma, in which you will get a supportive community, career and business mentorship, monthly group coaching calls, networking opportunities, mental health wellbeing days and unlimited body doubling sessions, and we also want to meet in the UK and, very soon, international meetups. I'm also working with the British Dyslexia Association and Lexic, one of the UK's biggest neurodiversity organisations to ensure our members get full, free neurodivergency assessments accredited with an educational psychologist or doctor. If this sounds like something you are interested and like to learn more, please reach out and talk to me directly about the membership. Please follow me on all platforms where you listen to podcasts. Thank you for listening to Divine Enigma and, if you got to the end, this is a safe place for project managers and professionals, side hustlers and business owners to give you the tools and tips on how to navigate the complexity of being neurodiverse in the workplace. I'll see you soon.
